Last year, I wrote reviews for every superhero movie that came out and this year, I’ve slacked quite a bit. I wanted to sit down and write an Avengers review, but there were only so many ways I could write, “I love this movie.” I wanted to try and write a review for Amazing Spider-man, but there are only so many ways I could say, “this is better than Sam Raimi ever did.”
Then, I saw Dark Knight Rises and after sharing my displeasure on Facebook and Twitter, and getting questions about how I could hate the movie, I decided it was best to get all my thoughts together. Please know two things before going on:
1) Spoilers are ahead (duh).
2) I hate that I’ve gotten to this point. Popgun Chaos was started to share the things I love and I take no pleasure in ripping this film apart.
So, let’s move on to some overly polemical statements followed by justification for those statements.
This isn’t a Batman movie – I hope that I don’t have to defend this because it’s pretty apparent. Batman is barely in this movie. Joseph Gordon Levitt is the star of the film, and while he’s great, I didn’t go to this movie to watch Joseph Gordon Levitt play hero cop. If I am going to a Batman movie, I expect to see Batman . . . especially in the third film of a franchise.
As I left the movie theater, I saw a group of kids leave the movie and I realized that they had to have been bored the whole time given that the hero of the movie didn’t show up for more than maybe 30 minutes of combined screen time.
Batman is no real hero - For three films now, we have seen Bruce Wayne struggle as to whether or not he wants to be a hero. While that may work for the first movie, the second and third films have now shown us that Bruce Wayne isn’t Batman because of some quest of vengeance in the memory of his parents, but because he was in love with Rachel Dawes. Once Rachel is dead, he has no motivation anymore and has given up being Batman FOR THE PAST EIGHT YEARS! This is heroism? This is being selfless and “giving the people of Gotham everything” (as Selina says in the film)?
And, given that Batman had been retired for eight years, doesn’t that just mean that he was Batman for maybe a year to stop Ra’s al Ghul, the Scarecrow, and the Joker and that’s it? It’s absurd to think that the people of Gotham would look up to a guy who barely did anything and then retired for eight years.
Honestly, other than beating up a couple of costumed villains, how is Batman a hero? How has he inspired anyone?
What does Alfred want?! – One minute, Alfred is giving long speeches about how Bruce Wayne needs to be a hero, then after Bruce is Batman again, he is giving long speeches about how Bruce shouldn’t be Batman! MAKE UP YOUR MIND, OLD MAN! And then, he just leaves the movie as if Michael Caine had better things to do than be in this stupid film.
Seriously, in three movies, Alfred has been the most inconsistently written character I’ve ever seen.
“Real” American Hero - one compliment that is constantly thrown Nolan’s way is how “real” Batman is, but these films are no more “real” than a giant, psychic octopus killing New York City when one really thinks about it. I mean, what do people mean when they say that these movies are “real”? Is the flying car “real”? How about the deus ex macguffin that can supply Gotham with clean energy or be turned into a nuclear weapon with the touch of four buttons?
I guess what people mean by “real” is that Nolan’s Batman franchise is dark, brooding, and depressing. Of course, the story of a lonely orphan on an obsessive quest for vengeance that leads to his destruction is a dark story, but this movie was hero-destroying pornography that was more preoccupied with tearing apart an icon than inspiring others. Batman is destroyed in every way possible, much to the delight of audiences. So, what does that say about us?
Maybe we don’t want inspiring heroes who do good things and never give up on us. Maybe we feel like our heroes have abandoned us and this is how we get back at them . . . by dragging Batman through the mud rather than crafting a story where he is clever, wonderful, and inspiring.
Of course, my favorite Batman story, “R.I.P.” did something similar by having a drugged Bruce Wayne wandering the streets of Gotham, but the comic was strange, obscure, bizarre and beautiful. It was about identity and how no matter how bad things look for Batman, he always has a plan.
This movie was a dark meditation on how hopeless the world is and how Batman isn’t really all that special.
Plot holes - These are too numerous to really go into and I didn’t take hard notes as I subjected myself to this movie, but there are enough to hurt the film’s credibility. The biggest in my mind is that Bruce is put in Bane’s prison in . . . um . . . Tatooine, and once he finally (and mercifully because it took so long to get past this annoying plot contrivance) escapes, he is penniless and without an ally in the world and he just somehow makes it back to Gotham. No explanation as to how he could just make it back. He just is.
Also, Joseph Gordon Levitt can figure out on very little evidence that Bruce Wayne is Batman and that Batman didn’t kill Harvey Dent, but he can’t figure out that Jim Gordon has been lying this whole time? And, why would he be so indignant to Gordon once the truth has been revealed?
Speaking of Jim Gordon, why would he write his big confession speech down and then just carry it around on himself the whole time? The night at the charity event couldn’t have been the same night Gordon was taken by Bane, so he just wears that jacket all the time with the secret, horrible confession written on it so he could whip it out any time he wants to admit he is a bad person.
Worse than that, why do people believe Bane when he reads Gordon’s confession? He is a terrorist in a mask that had blown up most of the city and threatened to set off a bomb that would destroy the rest! HOW IS THIS MAN TRUSTWORTHY?!
Also, the passage of time in this film was really weird.
Wait . . . you’re telling me that JGL is some normal, average cop and he can replace Batman – a billionaire who trained with assassins?
Christopher Nolan has no respect for the franchise - While the idea that Batman is more than just Bruce Wayne is fine in theory, it fails in the practice of this movie. In the comics, Batman trained partners in order to establish a legacy. Nolan’s films have a Batman who was a hero for maybe a year and then disappeared.
The last fifteen minutes of the movie are the most insulting, however. Joseph Gordon Levitt’s full name is revealed as “Robin John Blake” and he seems to decide to become the new Batman. If the character was “Richard Grayson,” “Tim Drake,” or even “Jason Todd” or “Terry McGinnis,” I would have been okay with it. But, random character with a name that is an allusion to Robin is insulting. It acknowledges a character tacitly, but asserts Nolan’s refusal to craft a movie that is true to the source material. I mean, how hard is it to name Selina Kyle’s friend “Holly”?
Further, it shows the vast difference between Marvel films and DC films. Marvel movies are full of winks, nods, and references to other characters and stories while DC films always seem so small in comparison. There are no other heroes in Nolan’s world. There is only Batman and the five villains that he fought a few times in ten years and that is just so damn small compared to how beautiful and wild comics can be.
Maybe this is what people mean by “real” – which is “small” and “boring.” One hero and five villains in an entire world where there is so much potential for greatness and stories.
I forgive Joel Schumacher – I never thought I could forgive the man who ruined Batman so many years ago, but I have because of The Dark Knight Rises. See, Joel Schumacher never saw the potential for a Batman movie – he thought of them as “just comic books” and therefore felt no responsibility to make them anything more than flashy, trashy films. His mentality was completely wrong-headed, but at least he didn’t have any pretentions about what his movies were and what they weren’t.
Christopher Nolan knows better. Dark Knight was a great movie about the precarious balance of chaos and order and how far both sides will go. That movie showed that Nolan knew how to make a comic book movie with substance and with Dark Knight Rises, he failed so miserably that it’s embarrassing.
Furthermore, when Schumacher left, Batman movies could still be made. Nolan has left the franchise in such a state that another Batman movie isn’t conceivable in the near future.
Yeah, I can hear you now, you’re screaming at your computer and saying, “BUT WHAT ABOUT JOSEPH GORDON LEVITT AS THE NEW BATMAN?!” He’s exactly the problem, because from here, audiences will have two different mindsets:
1) If Joseph Gordon Levitt isn’t Batman in the next film, they will be confused because of how this movie ended.
2) If he is Batman in the next film, then there will be people who will say “Wait, isn’t Bruce Wayne Batman?”
Damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t.
Also, the DC motto for the past few years has been bringing in the most recognizable alter egos to the heroes themselves. Hal Jordan is Green Lantern. Barry Allen is the Flash. Bruce Wayne is Batman.
(okay, so I don’t forgive Joel Schumacher, but I now hold Nolan in the same contempt or worse).
Final thoughts
I can’t say “what I would have done” because it isn’t my movie. I can, however, say what I wanted from a Batman movie, so here it is:
- I want a batman who never gives up – not one who was Batman for maybe a year and then quit for 8 and returned for no reason.
- I want a hero who soldiers on because it’s the right thing to do rather than quitting because his girlfriend is gone. Or a hero who is just obsessive because he lost something when his parents died that he can never get back.
- I don’t want “real” Batman because real life sucks as this movie has made abundantly clear. I want mad, daft, awesome, cool, confident, beautiful, insane Batman.
Enough complaining.
I’m going to go watch Mask of the Phantasm to see Batman done right.
UPDATE:
Sam said everything I wanted to say in a much shorter space:
“This was a fantastic movie about a GCPD detective. One of the best I have ever seen…about a GCPD detective. He was both the star AND the real hero of the film. However, as a film about batman…”concept” or reality…it missed the point. Which just propagates my dislike for batman in general. He bores me incencently. I would much rather watch a comic book movie than a boring movie that uses a comic book character to create some point about humanity just because the director didn’t want to actual READ the source material.”
I did not like this movie either. Just too darn DARK for me. The characters made comments about HOPE related to the story line just about the time I gave up any hope for the movie itself. Only thing I liked was the sequel setup at the very end. Hope they do better with that promise.
Some immediate, random thoughts after I saw the movie on Friday…
so what kind of accent was Bane supposed to have? If he was some kind of mid-easterner, why did he drift back and forth inconsistantly with a slight Brit twang? And other times he sounded like either an old prospector or a guy on the street’s worst Sean Connery impression. The voice was made clearer and more distinct after the complaints from the trailer, but almost made too loud and not really discernable from where it was coming from. Sounded too much like a blatant movie over-dub than naturalistic. and yeah, with the dub, Bane might as well have been played by a wrestler again.
Bane’s mask: as far as the realistic bat-verse, what exactly was the explanation for the function of this apparatus? “it stops the pain” is not good enough.
The flying Bat worked okay as a wired trick and at night, but daylight CGI cant mask the fakery.
To me, the switch to Pittsburg really hurt the look and feel of Gotham established in Chicago over 2 movies.
The league of shadows…again…
Am I wrong or did Bruce Wayne really just give up on his promise to his parents and Gotham over a girl? the most important aspect of Batman abandoned over a character that isnt even in the books? and that spirals out of control and pushes Alfred out of the picture? Sorry, I know that this is Nolan’s playground, but im not sure thats really Batman
The Robin thing was pretty lame…i almost expected that woman to wink at the camera after the exchange.
And leading with the Robin thing, anyone else feel this saga ending was a bit too Seinfeld Finale-esque. With “Robin would never fit in Nolan’s realistic take,” “is that Talia or not?,” “will Ras be returning?”, and “will Batman die?,” it seemed like the writers cheaped out on writing real suspense by just playing on what interweb speculation already had been running with.
Like every superhero movie nowadays, it was tiresomely long. Maybe you shouldnt try to cannibalize, combine, and condense about 3 long running Batman comic storylines (The Dark Knightfall Returns to No Man’s Land) in one go?
weak ending, but most third acts are. TDK was a tough one to follow. Batman failed, and the Joker gets the last laugh again. Oh well…still slicker, smarter, and better than any Marvel movie.
PS…President William Devane? that was about the only real surprise!
And, The Man of Steel teaser: using Lord of the Rings backing music? REALLY? like its been that long ago, and whats more, the Hobbit is coming this freaking year.
I agree with you on many points. I thought his retirement was somewhat forced. I left The Dark Knight believing now we are going to have Batman at odds with GCPD, so when TDKR began and he had been retired for the past eight years, it cheapened the last movie. Don’t get me wrong I still enjoy the first movies and I enjoyed most of this one. I liked the prison scene as a parallel to young Bruce falling down the hole and the League of Shadows fulfilling the mission of Ra’s al Ghul from the first film. I liked Catwoman–best addition to the movie if you asked me. Anne Hathaway pulled off Selina Kyle better than Pfieffer in Returns. I thought the chemistry between her and Bruce was great! I liked Gordon struggling with the burden of his lie. I liked Joseph Gordon-Levitt’s character on the whole, but had many issues with him. There were a lot of great plot points and nods to some great Batman storylines. I loved Crane as the judge of No Man’s Land! I even liked Alfred’s apparent inconsistencies because I saw him as wanting Bruce to be the hero Gotham needs through his good works rather than the abuse of his body, mind, and soul. Alfred didn’t want Bruce to die as a costumed vigilante hellbent on vengeance or some recluse because of guilt over the death of Rachel. He wanted him to live his life, not dwell on the past…to do good through humanitarian means, not by separating himself from the world and writing a check for charities…to be active and engaged in the good aspects of life, not brood.
But this movie should have been cut into two films to allow some characters and plot time to develop. Bane’s voice was too LOUD and disconnected as the previous commenter stated, but I felt it was too gimmicky like Bale’s voice, not menacing like it could have been. Bane leading the League of Shadows didn’t mind me, but there was no real depth to him. Linking him to Talia as her protector sat well with me. But Talia could have used more screen time to be more than a twist–hell, we all saw it coming! I was happy that she was Talia, but her character was incredibly flat. The quick romance had my head spinning. Batman trusted her too easily. This is Batman! Trust her because Lucius and Alfred say she’s pretty and she’s doing all these good deeds? No way! Terrible writing.
JGL could have been more. I liked that he figured out Bruce had been Batman, but instead of us seeing how he did this, we learn about it from a very thin rationale. Oh you wear a mask to hide your pain of being an orphan, you must be Batman! I would rather JGL have been Tim Drake as a detective connecting Bruce to Batman instead of a convenient plot device to get Bruce back as Batman. There should have been more of a legacy with Batman training him, but I guess Gotham can deal with a subpar Batman since it survived without one for eight years!
I’m not a huge comic book reader so I just watched the movie based on the movies themselves without any comic book references. I enjoyed the movie overall. I agree totally about the plot holes but those are in most every comic book movie.
I also agree about the “realism” in this movie not being very real but comic book heroes aren’t real. They do think they do a BETTER job in these movies. It isn’t just because it is dark and depressing. The villains were not giant mutated lizards, people with metal controlling super powers, gods from another planet, fat guys in colorful suits flying away using an umbrella that turns into a propeller, etc… They were just bad asses hell bent on destroying Gotham. These movies also tried to show more detail in certain things. For instance, how his cape works to glide. He also has a more practical car/tank compared to a bat mobile that has huge fanciful wings on the back. The movie didn’t have those colorful comic book colors in the set and costumes. In that sense, these movies are more “real”. But overall, it is still very unrealistic. I got a big kick out of how fast he learned to fly his “flying thing” and how quickly Cat Woman became incredibly awesome at driving that motorcycle.
One thing I understood differently from watching the movie is his reason for leaving for eight years. Unlike you, I didn’t get the impression that Rachael was his motivation for being/not being Batman. His motivation for being batman was to rid the city of crime. He let Harvey Dent be the hero and he took the fall for Harvey. He became the villain so Harvey’s memory could change Gotham. That is why he disappeared for eight years. Harvey Dent’s legacy took hold in Gotham and crime dwindled. Batman simply wasn’t needed until Bane came along and he didn’t hesitate to pick up his role as Batman again once he heard about Bane. The reason he stayed in his house, rather than move on with his life WAS because of Rachel. Harvey Dent’s legacy was the demise of Batman, Rachel was the demise of Bruce Wayne.
Another thing I disagree with is your take on Alfred. Yes, Alfred wanted him to be a hero but that doesn’t equate to Alfred wanting him to be Batman. He clearly begged Bruce to get on with his life. Alfred wanted him to have a normal life with a girlfriend and to be a hero as Bruce Wayne. His role was constant in this film.
And just because Bruce was only Batman for a year or two doesn’t make him less of a hero. Real-life heroes usually only do one great thing. He did many great things in those couple of years. If he was around as Batman for many years, then that would make him more of a super hero but it wouldn’t be as realistic. Score one more point for the realism team.
I can see why someone who loves the Batman comics would hate these movies. It wasn’t a Batman movie in the super-hero comic book way. But he was still a hero. People like Batman because he is a super-hero without powers. We can related to that. These three movies played off that by bringing him even closer to a regular hero. And it worked.
“They do think” in the second paragraph should be “I do think”. Oh yeah, and Banes voice was stupid.
What can I say. It was as good as I suspected. I did not like the story on how Bane became Bane. He wore the mask to lessen the pain, give me a break. Scarecrow as the judge was a nice touch. The ending, well what can I say, it stunk. Bruce Wayne, Selina Kyle, and Alfred living the good life over seas and Gotham has a new Batman that doesn’t fit into any of the thousands of stories written about the Dark Knight. Why not use the character name of Rumplestilskin for the next Batman. It is not like they didn’t have enough material for this movie. I get so tired of orgin stories not even being close in the movies compared to the comic, but that is just me. Let’s just hope that Peter Jackson doesn’t screw up the Hobbit because it could be done.
Your major complaints, tbh, are my favorite parts about the film:
~ Batman being not a hero is the best part about batman (what kind of traditional hero uses fear as a weapon?)
~ It definitely isn’t a batman movie. Yep, one friend pointed out that they barely use the name batman any more than they have to. it’s a ‘dark knight’ movie, a reimagining.
~ By “real” the movie features non-magic-based enemies and scenarios
Most of the plotholes can be explained, I just think it was unnecessary to really address. Sure, it’s weird Batman got back from the prison but he is also bruce fuckin wayne, who would of course have more resources off the books than what was lost and who happened to live in the 3rd world for a large period of time and is probably quite comfortable there (see opening of Batman Begins).
I find the use of JGL as a central protagonist to also be very effective since it is about how someone else, like the public, sees Batman. It is a story about how he fits into the world and is seen, rather than how he experiences it himself.
Yeah, the passage of time thing is a bit weird..
The praise you gives to Marvel is my least favorite part about nearly all of them, this annoying/goofy/gimmicky winks and jokes turning it into a silly comic book movie instead of a theaterical storytelling. Sorry for the wall of text, I guess I should write htis up somewhere else.
“~ Batman being not a hero is the best part about batman (what kind of traditional hero uses fear as a weapon?)” I don’t understand what you mean by this. Batman uses fear as a weapon as a hero. That isn’t my complaint about him not being a hero. A hero is one who does what is right because he knows that sacrifice is essential. This Batman quit being his girlfriend died and in the previous film, he was ready to quit so he could go back and date his girlfriend again. You’re cool with that?
“~ It definitely isn’t a batman movie. Yep, one friend pointed out that they barely use the name batman any more than they have to. it’s a ‘dark knight’ movie, a reimagining.” – That’s not Batman, but it is using his name and his likeness to sell that movie. If this film was called anything else other than Batman, then I wouldn’t have as much of a problem (aside from the plotholes, that despite how much you want to justify them, are numerous and large enough that it is annoying).
“~ By “real” the movie features non-magic-based enemies and scenarios” Just magic? Because the nucelar reactor and bat plane were both pretty far-fetched. Bane’s mask is “realistic”?
“Most of the plotholes can be explained, I just think it was unnecessary to really address.” Sure, they can be explained if you are willing to ignore a lot of stuff in this so-called “realistic” world, but I’m not willing to ignore them because if these films are supposed to be “realistic” then they have to follow “realistic” logic and it isn’t logical that penniless Bruce Wayne could make it off of Tatooine or that JGL could just find Gordon after he had gone through the sewers.
“I find the use of JGL as a central protagonist to also be very effective since it is about how someone else, like the public, sees Batman. It is a story about how he fits into the world and is seen, rather than how he experiences it himself.” Okay, so you didn’t want to see Batman in the movie?
“The praise you gives to Marvel is my least favorite part about nearly all of them, this annoying/goofy/gimmicky winks and jokes turning it into a silly comic book movie instead of a theaterical storytelling. Sorry for the wall of text, I guess I should write htis up somewhere else.” They might be gimmicky, but they are effective at building an overall world with lots of different stories that are possible. The Dark Knight trilogy didn’t do this at all. It felt tiny, and insignificant.
Also, no worries for taking up space. That’s what this site is for. Keep coming back!
Thanks for the response. One point too, that I forgot to mention. You didn’t mention what to me is the weirdest/biggest plothole:
I haven’t seen this discussed much but the big “reveal” on how they knew Wayne fixed the autopilot. What machine were the two scientists and Lucius Fox looking at? Was it the Batwing that blew up with the bomb yet somehow survived? Or was it a different one that somehow got patched with the other’s software?
All fair points and yet, I still enjoyed the film. On your issue about whether or not Batman is larger than a single man, I found it telling that he was always referred to as THE Batman, not Batman.
Amen. I did a similar rant from a different angle here…
http://www.joshuadysart.com/wp/the-dark-knight-rises-sucks-a-rant/
Hope you dig it. I’m going to link to this review in my comments!
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